While I usually post something about my BIG TOE, I have another side of me that is just as Real.
The following is a series of excerpts that came from a online discussion, where someone asked, "Can one come to "know" God without religion or without any book associated with that religion?"
Wherein, I answered, "Yes. Particularly if God seeks you out."
Jim Copeland
Donald P. Hutchins How do you know that your God is seeking you out? I am not giving you the Gears.I really want to hear this one. And also can you answer the other side of the question. How do you know if your God has passed you by and could care less?
Donald P. Hutchins
@Jim asked: " How do you know that your God is seeking you out? " That is a good question. How long is your attention span? When I had begun going to CSUF, to get a higher degree in an engineering field, I had an issue, that put me in the hospital, which resulted in a sever laceration of my brachial artery, and median nerve, at the bend of my elbow of my right arm, in fall of 1980.
My story is long, but I will make it short. I had been raised catholic. By age 16, I had stopped going. Prior to the above incident, I had already had several "life changing events" by this age, that had put me into the hospital. I was told to believe, and didn't have a clue as to how. With all of the trouble, me and my body had been through by age 18, I didn't really feel that God was in my "wheel house", and had put the concept of God in a small box and tucked it away somewhere in memory and paid it no mind. I finish my A.S. in 1979, got an A- in organic chemistry and found the error in the lab book, had hurt my back throwing dirt out of a ditch deeper than I was tall, got chiropractic help and a heel lift, and ate some great brownies at the grad party for our organic group. I was doing my 'best' (or was I) at trying to make my "world" better for me, by getting an education, working at a job in my field, and managing rent and other bills all at the same time just like everyone else at that age on their way to 'adulthood' and 'responsibility', even though I was still an adult-child, with no understanding at why I was doing it. Just running a pre-programmed script if anything. Then the previous paragraph happened.
While being made ready to go to the hospital, I had found that box I had tucked away, and pulled it out, and started and stated "J M J" , aka, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph" , in hopes that I might not die, as I thought my angel of death was near and riding in the ambulance with me. They got me into triage, cut off my new Levis, and the inflated turnicate which spilled 2 pints of my blood onto the floor, which they told me to clean up, so I started to get up off of the table. They held me down, and said the were 'kidding'. What kind of world was I living in, or if I was going to live at all, I was unsure at the time.
So let's sum up the medically life changing events that occurred so far: I was born Caesarian, with 2 cuts from the scalpel below my right eye, after the previous 18 hours of being squished against a hole that was too small for my hard head. I had the standard chicken pox, German measles, and mumps on one side, and got vaccines for the rest, before first grade. I had a bone cyst on my left radius, in 1st grade. I had a staff infection in my left ankle, resulting in osteomyelitis, and the removal of my epiphysis plate, fusion of the tibia and fibula to the upper tarsal bones, in 6th grade. Went through 7th and 8th with a brace, and was free of everything by the summer of the 8th. 9th through 12th grade was uneventful, medically, plenty of drama and trauma even though. Parents divorced during my senior summer.
I managed to put myself through Santa Ana College after 5 years, In the interim, I took a couple of intervening years off to just work, live and play. I graduate in fall of 1979. I go to CSUF in spring of 1980, did OK, but was still trying to comprehend the concept of college life and becoming an 'adult', as I still didn't "get it". Then during the middle of the fall semester, after it was past the time to be able to drop classes, boom, after being mugged at 2:30AM, and after I had escaped my attacker, when I went to knock on the assistant managers window for help, I punched a clean hole in the window, up to my elbow. Then he came towards me, as I failed to realize just where my arm was, I moved and I sliced open my arm. So, where was God, when I needed God the most?
One of the things that had been bothering me my whole life, up to then was, what was the real TRUTH of REALITY, and not the lies my parents, or other adults, had told me, or the supposed truths in an old book, and was wondering if God is REAL and Existing at all? After all, the physicality of my pain and injuries were very real to me, the reality of my mortality, or lack thereof, was also in question. As I had already been 'under the knife' more times than I could count on my fingers and toes, and yet here I was again once more. "What did God / Life have against me?" I was beginning to wonder.
Jim Copeland
Sorry Donald P. Hutchins, but what you have said though being a little tough and with some Bad luck along the way,for the most part, can only be interpreted as a part of the "Human Condition". I am alive because of Medical Science. When I am sick and with age ( my age is 70) it is inevitable that something will happen, And it did. Who brought me back to life Not any deity's but the Surgeons at The Carol G. Simon Cancer center. Others relied on Jesus and they are long dead. Life is just the "Luck of the Draw" and the way that you choose to fight off the inevitable.
Paul Gorbel
So Donald, do you feel that God has "not" sought you out? I personally do not feel as if God has ever "sought me out" per se. Yes, I do feel that my life has been good for the most part. There have been many opportunities presented to me, but many of those opportunities also required that I take myself out of my comfort zone...so in essence, pay where payment is due by exposing myself to risk to one degree or another. I wouldn't attribute those opportunities as "divinely bestowed", considering I was also raised a Catholic but ceased going to church many years ago. These are definitely all part of the "human condition", as setbacks and disappointments are experienced by every individual at one time or another. I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of your thoughts when posting the comment that you had.
Fred Bomonti DC
Interesting that this topic has gone on for 689 comments now. wow. While I think he is a bit over the top with his criticism, I agree with him that it a simple yes or no question. I go with "no" it is not necessary. I also agree with one of you above that it is also a question that has no "right" answer as nobody can prove definitively whether God exists or not. I believe that He, It, She, does however I agree with those that say this is all illusion and that there is no "God" and "us" or that we are or ever have been separate from the omnipresent, omniscient, infinite "Is." Please do carry on, but again "wow" what a lot of words about something no body really knows anything about.
Donald P. Hutchins
@Jim and Paul: Apologies for not finishing the story just yet ...
So there I was, wondering what was going to become of me, as they put me to sleep ...
I was kept unconscious for 72 hours, or about 3 days, no dreams just blackness. Then they woke me up slowly, by letting the drugs wear off slowly, then at that time, I had a very vivid and lucid dream, where I found myself coming down, out of some very black clouds, into a very bright lit outdoor desert scene with blue sky ahead and a long, straight, blacktop road with double yellow stripes in the middle, with a yellow school bus not too far ahead just below. As I was attempting to glide down onto it, my left hand was lightly grabbed and held by something looking female with long white material draped from her shoulders flowing in the wind of travel, who then guided me to a very nice roadside 50's style eatery and soda shop. It had round red leather bar stools, lace curtains on the windows, red and white checkered tablecloths, and lace dollies on the top of the bench backs, also upholstered in red leather. There was a row of handles just above the back counter on the wall, and lots of woodwork. She had me sit down, and told me to wait. Then I woke up to find that I still had a right arm. When I finally got back home, I found out I had to pay for the window I broke. Well when I did get back I went outside where it was looking gloomy, and I had a verbally one-sided dialog with God, specifically saying that if I am to do what ever it is I am supposed to do, then I needed direct feedback from 'Him' on a regular basis, basically for reassurance, and that the weather was the way to communicate back, i.e. I can get the weather I want, where and when I want it, however I would maintain a 5 mile radius for my local weather. Here I am, some 35 years later still communicating, asking for and getting, with out sever extremes, nice weather. I used ride a motorcycle and wanted dry weather, seems that might have created the current CA drought, which I have been working on trying to reverse the pattern, and bring more rain. I must have several different scripts running. Some that keep it away, from my area, but bring it on everywhere else. I wanted 2' of snow up in the local, central and northern CA mountains, but somehow it gets confused, or I loose focus, or God just does what God wants. Anyway lots of experience there, and it has become a more casual relationship in that regard, as I get a breeze when I say please, the rest I try to leave on auto-pilot.
Donald P. Hutchins
In 1986, I had been renting a room from a friend, in a 2 bedroom apartment. One evening he asks me to go with him to where his power boat was trailered, and was to help him put a tarp on it. So no problem I was OK with it, and we went down to the Balboa Peninsula Boat dock. It was a clear moonless night, we parked near by, got out and went to where his boat, on a trailer, was parked. He got up on the boat from the parking lot side to get the tarp, and I was up on a 3' block wall on the other side of the boat, ready to receive it, walking towards the front of the boat, looking / feeling for a hand hold rail, that apparently wasn't there, and as I got closer to the front of the boat, it got wider, and as the trailer was right up against the wall, I was leaning backwards while trying to grab something to pull myself up onto the deck, then the world went away, as it was a dark night already, the added darkness went unnoticed, and I felt completely calm and at peace, until my buddy, who was up on his boat, shouted out, "What the hell are you doing down there?", and I am looking up and over to where he shouted from, and said, "I don't know ... what am I doing down here?" and the he said, "Well then get your ass back up here." I said "OK", and then put my hands down below my sides, by a couple of inches, as my prone body wasn't quite touching the wooden surface of the floating dock, and pushed myself up to a standing position. The distance traveled horizontally was about 30', while the vertical distance traveled, for my head, was about 20'. My body had also been rotated backwards 90 degrees, vertical to horizontal, so I was made prone and then I was rotated 90 degrees horizontally via bellybutton axis, so that I was parallel to the floating dock. The top of the wall, bordering the parking lot, is 3 feet tall, the steps leading down to the first permanent wooden dock is about another 6', I am 5'6" tall. That first dock is about 5 feet wide. Then at the end of that dock were 8 steps leading down to the floating dock, on piers so it just went up and down with the tide, which was another 6' or 7' down and another 5 feet wide. It had been really quiet while I was laying just above the second dock. Then as I got up the sound of the night and the water came back, I could hear the sound my feet made as I pranced backup and across the lengths wand widths of the docks, back up to the gate that I hadn't gone through to get down there, and rejoined my friend who had finished putting on his boat cover, and went home without him saying anything about him seeing what might have happened. Overt Divine Intervention Experience #1.
Donald P. Hutchins
!@#$% Corrections, I had to look at my resume to get the correct dates, the 1st DIE happened about June 1988. The second time was between July and August 1990, I remember I was living with my dad and step-mother, at their Mobile home, in Anaheim, CA and I was riding down to Wilmington, CA, doing another oil related computer work, similar to what I had been doing when the first event occurred. Going home my starting point was Henry Ford Rd and E Anaheim St. Typically I would go across Anaheim St to the 710N then to PCH to the 405/22. Well, I don't quite remember why I wanted to go north to PCH sooner, however I decided to turn north on Santa Fe Ave. I know it was a left turn. This is where it get really weird. I am sitting at the red light in the left hand turn lane, on a 4 lane road so 6 lanes wide, plus sidewalks and street parking, waiting for the arrow to go green. I am probably thinking and going through the work I did that day and then thinking about the traffic ahead. For many years a motorcycle was my main mode of transportation. As I am sitting there at the red left turn light, I am looking around at my surroundings, looking for street traffic and am able to see for several lights down, on both sides of the road, empty lanes and no moving trucks to speak of except those that were parked on either side of the road against the curbs. Then the red arrow goes to green. I squeeze the clutch handle and down shift into 1st from neutral, 1 down 4 up, and am ready to release the breaks, and turn the throttle and take off like a shot, as per usual, to cross the 2 lanes, of what should have been empty lanes, of on-coming traffic, or at least if there had been traffic that had been coming, that I apparently didn't, see it should have been stopped, or stopping, so that I could cross. You know like usual.
Then it happened. I find myself, or what makes me, me, in a clear empty sphere, or maybe I was the clear sphere, surrounded by a medium grey cloud, that I could not see through until I 'rotated' to look down, then I was able to look through a small hole in the cloud, towards the ground, and it appeared that I was high up above the ground, like about 100 feet, and saw my body get off of the motorcycle and lay it down on its right side then stand up. I then, while in my sphere, had rotated up and closed my 'eyes', and then when I opened them again, I found myself standing on the street, in my turn lane, with my green arrow, my motorcycle engine was off, the motorcycle was laying down, on the street, on its right side, and as I look to my left a truck with 2 trailers, 26 wheeler, doing 60mph, was just finishing going through its red light in its left hand lane of 2 lanes. I pick up my motorcycle up off of the street from the left hand turn lane that I was in still, got on it, started it, and completed my left hand turn on my then still green turn arrow. Me no bug slat. DIE #2.
So OK, maybe the 1st time it was just my imagination, coincidence, some bad exhaust or second hand smoke, ... but the 2nd ... God definitely yanked me out of my body, adjusted my body's intent, and then put me back into my body. That should have shook me more than it did. I tried to tell my dad about it, he was a metaphysical minister at the time, so I thought he might have some insights as to what I had experienced. He didn't or wasn't interested, or probably chalked it up to drugs that he thought I was using at the time. Who knows now ... God definitely.
So then for 6 years, thing go relatively smoothly, I change jobs regularly as I did housing and roommates. Nothing really interesting happens until March 1996
Jim Copeland
Donald P. Hutchins: Have you ever taken any Hallucinogenic Drugs for a lengthy period of time?
If so, are you aware that some who have, experience flashbacks even years later. I don't think that you are making this stuff up It sounds to me as if you are experiencing either a Flash back or a psychotic break. Get Help as soon as possible. Make sure that your physiatrist is on the first floor because when he listens to this story he might be the one to jump out of a window.
Tony Hanes
Ah .. the monkey throws more poop ..... if only he didn't feel trapped. Donald said, "God definitely yanked me out of my body, adjusted my body's intent, and then put me back into my body."
Do you think its possible, the 'yanking' was a process of your own soul, perhaps operating on levels beyond the physical mind awareness?
Robert Birmingham
Tony I have been wondering why I have Jim in this part of my dream, then I realize that he is the one that now plays the role of Donald's dad. I think I can understand how don's dad would respond if he thought Don was on Drugs.Just read Jim's response....
Don's story is quite interesting....
Donald P. Hutchins
@Jim Copeland asked: "Have you ever taken any Hallucinogenic Drugs for a lengthy period of time? "
As this is a "business public site" where potential employers lurk, to see if they can find a reason to not hire a particular candidate, as such, your question begs for either my stupidity, naiveté, or some kind of axe job to myself. As it is I have already stated that I had been "under the knife more times than I can count on my fingers and toes", and you should be well aware that DRUGS are used in the process of healing, in surgeries, after care, etc. and you stated that "I am brighter than most." Hhhm I am curious, ... do any of you drink alcohol or coffee, or are any of you, especially you Jim, aware of the effects that are experienced, by a valid patient, when antiseptics, or anesthesia is applied to the human body by a licensed physician or anesthesiologist? I do know those feeling and changes in perception quite well, the length of time of application, ratios of oxygen to Nitrous oxide, commonly known as laughing gas, nitrous, nitro, or NOS is a chemical compound with the formula N 2 O. It is an oxide of nitrogen. Then there is Sodium Pentothal, commonly known as truth serum, and artificial opiates like Demerol. Then there was whatever it was that they used to keep me unconscious for 3 days that made my thighs feel like used pin cushions. I am well versed in such things. From the changes in the visual, auditory, and tactile sensory regions within the brain, to the various levels of intoxication from previously mention substances,, and just how much does what and for how long, all before the age of 15. Lessor minds have succumbed to less, and just floated in the waste land of listlessness. I probably have 1.5 than the average number of brain cells per cubic millimeter in the average adult human being. So I can still type reasonably well, and spellcheck helps as well. Do you want to know the song an anesthesiologist sang to me when I was 13 and having more surgery done on my ankle as he put me to sleep? I'll bet most of you don't even remember what happen when you were 12, let along a song that someone only once sang to you to put you to sleep.
But I have done my homework on the subject, maybe even more so than yourself, by direct, or second hand knowledge perhaps.
Donald P. Hutchins
@Tony Hanes asked: " Do you think its possible, the 'yanking' was a process of your own soul, perhaps operating on levels beyond the physical mind awareness? "
This is a good question. Since were discussing 'God', the maker of 'souls' everywhere, who might have put a "Savior / Survivor" script that might kick in when needed, in my case, however I don't believe that to be the case. Or then there is the possibility of one of 'his helpers', who performed the task. God is all. He can change it all, at any moment, for just one moment, on a whim. So I believe it was just God.
@Robert Birmingham: Well then I will continue. Oh, back to hallucinogens, does anyone here use 'Nutmeg'? There are many ways to alter ones conscious perceptions, some medicinal things, procedures, rites, rituals may affect you, or not, temporarily, or not, and there are many reasons to alter one's conscious perceptions, one of the main ones is to "See God" or experience "Oneness with God" etc. during Guided Meditation with chanting, incense, controlled breathing, is another way to alter one's conscious perceptions, and is a common group experienced hallucination, if done correctly by a charismatic enabler, during a religious attendance.
Oh, the title of the song was, "This Old Man", he played one, he had a nick-knack on his thumb. The nick-knack was done by the paddy whack, so he gave the dog his thumb bone, and this old was going to go home, by decided to stay and type away, anyway.
So, in March 1996, I had found myself a job, a girlfriend, a decent place to live near the ocean, had a good vehicle to drive (a motorcycle) to and from work, eat regular, etc. life was good, or was it, because I asked audibly to thin air, "Is this it, have I arrived ... ?" God listened. God has a quirky sense of humor, and can be very subtle about it. As God had shown me the true ' Spiritual Side of Reality ', as the next hit to my sanity, God, or someone from the future, sends me a wormhole to take my ear plugs ... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gJpKIW8nm1OTdXSS1rRzhoSWc/view?usp=sharing)
Yes, as I have experienced the results of several, and viewed the actual formation of one, in truth. What does occur is that a structure, that equates to the inside half of a torus forms, the wall diameter is one tenth of the larger inner diameter, with an intersection between two different areas of 'space-time' in the center of the half-ring like structure, while the curve of the wall bends everything, including matter itself. The topside of the inside half is located in the present-past, while the bottom side, that is out of view, was located in the future-present, with zero crossover section forming the interface between the two 'presents.' When an object goes through the interface, which is invisible prior to visible formation, an imbalance is created, that must be rebalanced, such that a visible formation occurs allowing passage in both directions. Light did come through from the future-present into the present-past, and its energy or its equivalents did pass through the interface from the 'future-present' side to the 'present-past' in the amount that balanced the mass and its acceleration (due to gravity) that had passed through initially. This exchange holds open the interface until balance is achieved, then the interface closes. The effect was the formation of the interface, as to what the affect was is still unknown to me at this time. And that was just the first 2, 1 going, 1 coming back. or 2 linear experiences of one object.
Donald P. Hutchins
I had the whole story posted on a website, like About.com, but it is no longer available. So I had 5 events, 3 going, 2 coming back. Each time a personal object was taken, and then returned at a later time and a different place. The number, 365, plays a role in both time and space measurements, using inches, feet, yards, seconds, hours, days, weeks, months.
Paul Gorbel
There is IQ and there is EQ. One may be of the opinion that EQ is inherently bestowed upon individuals whom are fortunate enough to be gifted with IQ. Those having only IQ laugh with condescension and cynicism, but only those having a degree of both can truly appreciate the absolute genius of Sheldon Cooper.
Donald P. Hutchins
"Sheldon Cooper" .... speaking to the choir. he is truly funny.
http://lookin4realscience.blogspot.com/2008/09/four-degrees-of-freedom-of-rotation.html
So these "Physical Side of Reality" events happened between March 1996 and August 1998 when I am kicked out of my apartment, with a return still waiting to happen. Jan 1998 the second white and red plastic bottle left my reality, I waited the 8 months, or 36.5 weeks, to see if it would come back, nope. So I had to figure 36.5 months till re-entry. My sister kindly let me stay with her at her house she had in Whittier, CA., and in Feb. 1999 I was involved in a car accident, and during that accident I had a clear vision of the driver sitting in the front seat by herself with a beatific smile on her face, and a sense of peace, just before impact, when I turned my head back to the front view, as she was coming from the side. My sister got an attorney for me, and got me my doctor paid for, the layer paid for, and me paid enough to get transportation once again. No more bumpy bus rides with a sore back and neck. The result of the accident was that I was able to have my chiropractor finish my corrections, so no more cracking my neck every 2 hours, and a straight spine. DIE #3.
Paul Gorbel
Don, nobody really knows the true nature of death. As Robert once stated, it could very well be the best thing about life. That being said, I'm not ready to find that out just yet. LOL I've never personally had any such experiences that even come close to what you have described. In this area you have much more authority to discuss such matters than I. I do believe however in the pool of consciousness from which we all arose and will all eventually return to, so in that respect I can't simply dismiss your viewpoint.
Ashok Kumar
Donald, you seem to have had some profound experiences. I'd like to propose some out of the box thinking. Could you remove 'God' from your reason and try to explain why you experienced what you did - in a logical way? I read your reply to Jim and feel that yours is not a case of some nut high on substance abuse. Rather, I feel we are dealing with a highly intelligent person with some extra ordinary experiences to share. Since you are the one with that experience, you alone can retrace the path and help us understand. Over to you Don
Donald P. Hutchins
@Ashok Kumar: Right back at you ;) So there I was, in 1999 after the accident, with a straight spine which had been curved 20 years before, a neck that no longer gets stiff or sore and doesn't need to be cracked every couple of hours, a better old car, and my third DIE. So being the scientific method and physics orientated to define my reality kind of individual, I had to pause, take note of past events, seeing a kind of pattern, points on a line, etc. and reassess my POV of my world. By this time I have had 3 Spiritual Reality, and 5 Physical Reality defining events, so off the wall strange, even to me, however there I was fast approaching 2000, and everything I had learned in school physics wise, or in church, was wrong.
The question here is, 'Can one come to "know" G(g)od without religion or without any book associated with that religion'. Well by 1999, 19 years after my accident with the window, I seem to have a good start as to an answer, and some serious 'data points' to consider and delusions to clear away, and see if a new location out of state would be of benefit. I had been living with my sister for several months, and her 'patience' was wearing thin. So I call my uncle to see if their was some work up there that I could do, or help out doing. He agrees. I go up to Winchester, OR where he lived, and get settled. He owned property up on a mountain, with lots of very big Douglas Fir trees. He had a truck that one had to lock the front hubs to get 4-wheel drive. We would take our lunches that were packed for us and I would drive up to the location where his on a 1956 D6, cable operated blade, Caterpillar Bulldozer, on a high mountain, with chain saws, big hammers, big pin punches, hand tools, cutting torch, come-alongs and portable welder, we removed links out of the track, chased threads, adjusted the span, repaired and reinstalled pony springs and attached struts. R&R right front idler bearing and wheel. R&R the left rear track support idler. Reinstalled the belly springs and pan. Reupholstered and reinstalled the Cat Arms. R&R the right rear drive wheel cover plate. Chipped out 44 years of compressed dirt and grease from off of the inside of the cover plate and around right rear wheel well. Made new gaskets for the cover plate. Tightened and adjusted both reassembled tracks. Also did full grease, lube, oil and filter change, and refueled it as well. Well at the end of one day, after some hard work, I cleaned my hands with diesel fuel, and wiped them off well. All seemed OK, I was alert, etc. and we got into the truck per usual, I was driving. There was a section of road that was straight, narrow, and steep, with cliff edge to the outside, basic mountain dirt road. With windows open and fresh air a-flowing, I had just got to the top of this particular stretch and was pointed straight down towards the bottom of it where it turned sharply and cliff edge beyond if one didn't turn and then just blacked out. Total unconsciousness. Glad my uncle was awake and had strong arms, as he turned the wheel just before we made the bottom, and started our horizontal drift, which is when I came to, hit the gas, changing the current vector and kept from going over the side. Wheee that was fun ... I didn't want to do it again ... Oh when I got back from my adventure up in OR, where I lost my wallet, had burned a 55 gallon drum of gasoline, to get up there and back, and when I checked my tires I found several nails, two in the outer sidewall of the right rear tire with no loss in tire pressure. And safe passage to and from my uncle's house. And on the way back, at a beach where I had stopped, I saw my first live bald American eagle, chasing an Osprey Hawk that had the Eagle's next meal in it's beak.
Mukesh Chauhan @ORIGINAL GOD-MYSTERY at 1ASB
To see God one needs to take an internal journey. The mistake scientists have made despite some awesome research and discoveries is taken an external route in search of finest mysteries of our Universe of which God is the ultimate mystery. I discovered God and Original God. Both can only be known by internal journey through human consciousness ... I discovered human consciousness has a Black Hole which is a protective mechanism by Creator's Intelligent Design which prevents anyone from stealing information.... Science does not know Black Hole has consciousness. I discovered how you can do a reverse journey and can acquire energy to make a Star...opposite of how stars lose energy and become a black hole. Simply awesome design by Original God with whom I communicate instantly and you can ... There are 6 layers of energies which will prevent you from taking an internal route to discover who you are and where you come from. These energies operate from sub-quantum level. Einstein was absolutely correct to disagree with Neil Bohrs Quantum Theory saying there is a deeper level of reality which is waiting to be discovered. This is what I have discovered. Made possible only after meeting Creator for whom I searched for 14 yrs...now in my 23 rd yr ...
Donald P. Hutchins
@Mukesh Chauhan: OK mister "Original God Mystery" man, you say you searched for 14 years, 'met' your creator, and survived, and now after an additional 9 years, you are just now sharing your 'knowledge', and have 'kidnapped' vernacular from physics, and meta-applied it to your 'discovery', a 'reverse journey'.
Journeys, of any kind, are always in the direction of travel, and for us linear creatures, in one direction in time, (unless you can initiate a known properties wormhole and thus actually travel backwards in time), so to retrace your path physically, you just turn 180 degrees, and start moving, thus going back to your original linear distance starting point, yet you continue to accumulate time on your 'reverse journey' in the positive forward direction.
Religions can not "cover up" what they don't actually "know", which is actually next to nothing when it comes to God.
You say you can use 'star power' to make a 'star', and that you can, with "God with whom I communicate instantly", surely you must 'know', that we all do that, consciously or unconsciously, and that some are just better at doing it consciously, than others. Do you get 'feedback' from God? As an example, here in Southern California, the previous 2 days 15/10/10 and 15/10/11(yy/mm/dd format) have been in the triple digits in Fahrenheit. I have been suffering probably because I moved my finger in the wrong direction to create a low to replace the hi to get it to rain. So last night, I rotated my finger in the opposite direction. Now, today, I had cloud cover that I wanted to keep the hot rays of the sun off of my van that I sleep in during the day time, but they came from a hurricane from the south, off the coast of Mexico, which brought very warm humid air with it. The clouds that arrived about midday are at the long end of the northern spiral arm of the current hurricane just 1000 miles south of SoCal, where I live. Less than 12 hours in response time for the actual clouds to arrive, a response time of minutes, after moving my finger in the other direction with intent, I noticed a direct change from the currently (and finally) cool dry air, to cool air with a higher moisture content. So I didn't sweat quite as much, about one half as much as I did the previous 2 days during my sleep in my metal oven. I get results personally. I work with God, God works with me.
Donald P. Hutchins
Today, the weather was much better. So where was I ... oh yah, in 2001 I was made homeless, but found some shelter in the secure backyard of a industrial building. First I was sleeping in my white car that I had bought from a friend after the accident my blue car. Then I had to give that up, but in return I got to sleep in a trailer with A/C for 10 years only having to deal with some vermin issues (rats), and some jealousy issues. The tales of terror that I have to tell will have to wait, as it is off topic and doesn't quite relate to the question at hand.
However, during that 10 year period, I had 2 different events out in the parking lot. The 1st one was witnessed by a customer and my manager. I had been helping a customer whom I had once helped before, and was putting the molding up on the roof of his van. He had 'thought' ahead and had tied some twine to the bumper and left it hanging onto the ground where my foot had gotten tangle, when, while I was still hanging onto the load, and feet tangled in twine, he notices a flaw in a stick, and he yanks the molding bundle, and makes me fall backwards, back towards from where we had come from, and he is back through the store door, with his end of the bundle, before I can get free of the twine or let go. As I start to fall backwards, my adrenaline starts to shoot high, and I start to yell out, "God D..." which is as far as I got with my exclamation, when suddenly I was surrounded by white light and was filled with an overwhelming feeling of calm and peace. That was quite the opposite of what I had started out with, to the point where all that I knew, was no longer important, all that I had ever felt emotionally in my human life, all previous and current feelings of anger had been wiped out. Just utter calm and a loving warmth. Then my body slowly came into contact with the cement. Very slowly. When I thought I had reach the ground, the sensation of my weight, the pressure of contact with my hands, my butt, my back, my head, was like I was feather light. If I go to lay down upon the concrete, now, I feel it like I usually do, cold and hard, and the pressure on my skin from the weight of my body is way more than at that one time, like it is usually if I am laying down on the concrete floor. The manager says he came out, he looked, and said that it looked like I had caught my self, did nothing, and when my 'event' was done some 5 minutes had gone by, and they were talking like nothing had happened, or that they didn't see anything unusual.
The 2nd time was when the wheel of gate that secures the backyard, was stuck in a rain gutter trench that had been created after the fact of the gate pivot. In order to get the gate to close, I had to lift the gate, and wheel, up and out of the trench. I didn't have a 2x4 at the ready, to try some leverage. So I grabbed the bottom of the gate, a round, metal, hollow, horizontal pole, that was easily grabbed, and put myself in proper position to use my thighs as the main drive, thought I was grabbing tight enough, and was at full thigh thrust pressure when my grip slipped. And the same sequence of events, and feeling felt, transpired, except I didn't yell out, and had 2 witnesses. They did come over to where I was, while I was just sitting up, the witnesses understood what was occurring, at the end of my 'fall', they asked if I was OK, and I said, "Yes, I feel perfect!", I didn't see them because I was still in the white light, and they were behind me. Then then next thing I notice is the sound of tires spinning and gravel flying. I then get up and go find a 2x4, get the gate out of the ditch, closed and locked per usual.
Both were witnessed, in one case there was no understanding, or seeing the reality of the event, in the other there was, and they seemed scared.
Donald P. Hutchins
So, have I successfully answered the Question, to your satisfaction or do you want more examples from my life? The Bottom Line is that the journey to discovery is a rough road. Those who believe in God, without evidence, and keep their faith in God, sans any religious involvement that tells them how, or what God's name is (doesn't have one, unless it is the name of creation itself), who, when or where to 'worship' which sounds like 'war-ship' and just is trouble to start, are more blessed than someone like myself who wanted to know God's real truth. Spirituality is a singular journey, while religion can be a communal catastrophe. Religion has no lock of the Creator of All, i.e. God. Those people who help the helpless, house the homeless, feed the hungry, and find or make jobs for jobless, giving hope, showing faith and giving of charity are the best that humanity has to offer, regardless of their church going or their beliefs that give them the need to fulfill their 'debt' to others, because others had given to them when they needed it.
And when God saw that my duress was great, as given to me by those around me treating me as their whipping boy, using threats, verbal harassment, to put me 'in line', etc., knowing I have had 3 heat attacks, and my back and ankle getting worse, trying to get me to move faster, because I failed to move fast enough twice in a row to help the same customer, and failed to see that I was having trouble moving at all, he came into me and took over, as I was bending down to grab the whole stack at the bottom of the rack, intending to jerk it all out in one shot.
FMPOV I blacked out just as I was bending over to grab the molding, and had come back to reality, in a standing position, feeling Perfect, with the customer I had been helping standing directly 1 foot away directly in front of me, smiling, and looking like he had seen a miracle, a look I have seen before, and speechless. The molding that I went to grab was out the cubby hole at the bottom, it had been sorted and picked through, the leftovers on a cart, the molding purchased on the A-frame rack all wrapped up, the manager who had been stomping in my direction was not saying anything, all the witnesses were silent as to what had happened and I know at least 10 minutes had gone by as well. My treatment by those around me changed 180 degrees. Where I had and got no respect from those around me, changed and now have much more regard for me than ever before, including my boss and manager, both of whom I have known for decades, so they had grown comfortable about being mean to me, the low man on the totem pole. They continue to this day, as it has been over 1 and 1/2 years since that event, to be kind and considerate towards me. So God continues to keep His promise to me, to improve my body, and keep it safe, with my brain and spine healthy and well, in His subtle means and ways.
So my answer is still a very big YES, particularly when God seeks you out. You just have to understand the communication system, for when He 'speaks', not verbally, it is creation, action and change that happens. .
Tony Hanes
Donald, you have shared your experiential moments that seem to defy ' Normality'. Though my own opinion is that you are discovering more of yourself, in the way a caterpillar may turn into a butterfly. These things can be a miracle from God if it serves you to believe so. It may of course be, that you we're never just a caterpillar you we're taught to believe.
Donald P. Hutchins
@Tony: As I am not the really 'creative' type, I could not make this up as it is too 'off the wall' for the 'normal' perspective. Yet it is all true, the experience is tough to deny, and deny it I cannot. God shows me, every day, that He is in the here and now, always aware, such that I know I am never alone. My life has been God's hands since the day I was extracted.
If I had any control at all, I certainly wouldn't be homeless. I don't seem to be able to get out of my own way. Money would never be an issue. I would have central A/C and heating etc. But those are all material things. And basically it is a material world. But FMPOV God definitely, beyond any shadow of any doubt, is real and existing and is reality. So I still have all those predefined scripts running and need to edit them somehow, so I can change my situation when the time necessitates the action. So maybe I am the butterfly dreaming I am human, or maybe I am still in that hospital bed with missing parts, and dreaming that I am whole and healthy.
There were many things, that are a part of this reality, that re-grounded me back to this reality, after each event, making the event very real. If we don't remember the past, we are doomed to the same failures in the present, that keeps us from moving forward into the future in a positive direction. If I didn't have a long attention span, and a good memory, and had not interacted with the Universal Invisible Force of Infinite Intelligence, capable of manipulating mass, time and space, I don't believe that I would be here typing this message, to all who can read it, and gain understanding by it. It was very hard for me to gain a belief in God, now I can put my faith in my knowledge, gained from my experience over the years, and can truthfully and honestly say, "Yes".
Robert Birmingham
Donald you said;
If we don't remember the past, we are doomed to the same failures in the present, that keeps us from moving forward into the future in a positive direction.
Is that really true? Or is it one of those sayings nobody questions....or maybe it's a belief system that when activated becomes true.... If you never remembered the past how would you ever know you repeated it? and wouldn't everything be new to you then? I do find your story interesting though....
Felix Labinjo
I'm not so sure that 'doomed' is the appropriate word. Adolf Hitler made the same mistake in 1942/43 that Napoleon did in 1812 by invading Rusia during the winter. As it so often happens to virtually all of us, when a spiritual lesson is not learnt, it is repeated until we sound the right energy note.
Donald P. Hutchins
@Felix: Agreed. I take great issue, particularly in this day and age, with those that use their religion, race, faith, etc. to do harm to those around them, and by proxy outlying regions, infecting them with their brand of poison, conducting themselves as thugs, thieves, and murderers all in the name of their 'religion', they are the dogs, the infidels, harlots of destruction, and are more than willing to bring everyone down to their level. WWIII is already started.
Charlotte Cooper: Donald, you seem to be filled with anger. Why vent it here?
Felix Labinjo: The question Don, is why should YOU take issue? The moment you accept that each and every one of us on the planet are carving out their paths of experience, the sooner you will realize that one of the motto's of the Universe is "Live and let live".
Donald P. Hutchins
@Felix: It is easier to express in words, rather than take action, against that which irritates. How does one teach love without touching? I still get angry at my dead mother. I could write 10,000 words easily on that subject. Some things are genetically ingrained. Mom seem to get angry at the drop of a hat ... I have had a very short fuse all of my life and it is a constant battle to lengthen it especially when it has been lit.
I understand that everyone, in their own way, and in their own time, find their path, and if they can stay the course, being that the path is the correct one, then they will reach that goal at the end of it, even if they are not aware of that goal.
I have made many different plans, in the past, to improve my lot in life, and change the outlook that I have had, into something more positive and actually be able to think about the future, however thing never seemed to go as planned or they got changed in midstream in a totally different direction, time and time again. Successful people keep getting up after they get knocked down. I been beaten battered and bruised most of my life in one way or another, mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually, and it just keeps getting harder to get back up.
So If I seem angry, it is genetic. Not being able to write just 170 character in an answer, is another genetic trait.
Bruno Berardinone
Probably, Donald. Anyway, I meant that,...since religions failed to solve the "God Affair",
would we not do better to put that confusing and conflicting notion aside,
and concentrate on what is our real interest...happiness?
carol piunno
We all have different beliefs,and we are entitled to believe what we want,the main thing is being good to yourself and other,s help people when and if you can good comes to you when you do good for other,s ,,god can reside in your heart in any form you want god is love ,,so put love and god,s religion is love ,,,,,,
Donald P. Hutchins
@Carol: God does not have a 'religion', as 'religion' is a human concept, i.e. man made concept. If anything, all of creation is God's regularly repeated words, as we are still here.
@Bruno: Most people don't want to do that much work, finding happiness, while putting ones life in God's hands, which is why they are the sheep that go to church to be sheared and harvested. Most want to be shown how, where, when, who, and forget the why to get to 'know' God. It is a matter of perspective, and in physics it is called relativity.
God is the embodiment of Peace and Love. While one is fully within God's presence, which is overwhelming, to the degree that nothing of 'human concept or feeling' matters or exists. This includes any other kind of 'human' feeling that you were having just before contact was established, such anger or worry or doubt, who you are, where you are, what you are, why you are, or when or how you are, all those 'concepts' are just gone from your consciousness, that is if you haven't just blacked out because you are not conditioned to sudden changes in reality, and one then just basks in that which is God, and feeling utter calm, because of the overwhelming feelings of supreme Peace that emanate from the Being that is God, while being surrounded in white light, during a crisis moment, while God has stepped "in" and modified your reality, enabling your safety and continuance.
Good people do good works because it is in their 'nature', and they like the endorphins that come with a job well done. Some of that 'nature' may have been shaped, by their social leanings, such as church going, or understand it as their civic duty, or as their calling, etc.
Bruno Berardinone
Donald, frankly, I'm hardly able to catch the sense of what you're saying.
I fully agree, though, with your comment to Carol.
Hope to hear again from you, then.
carol piunno
Donald i didn't really mean that god has a religion ,i realize there is no such religion ,i only meant that if you believe in whatever god you have in your heart then god is love ,and he teaches love, so yes Donald religion is man made i know this its why i believe we have choices in whatever we believe,sometimes religion keeps us apart from one another ,and it feels like people are so into their beliefs that it keeps them imprisoned in what they think ,i think just understanding of every person you meet is a good start to peace within yourself even if you dont agree with them ...
Carin Laurie
We can, most definitely, know 'God' without following any religion. Religious worship and practice is, at best, one of many paths and, at worst, a distraction.
As Donald says: God is the embodiment of Peace and Love...
(though I would substitute the word 'essence' for 'embodiment')
Paul Gorbel
When someone says "God", to me that usually embodies some type of "personification" of a deity if you will, for lack of a better statement if you understand my meaning. When someone says "religion", to me that usually means a set of beliefs based around that "personification" of "God". I guess you can say Felix that I found "spirituality" in the absence of "God" or "religion" as explained as such. To me it all seems very simple; with conscience in mind, treat everyone with dignity and respect and it will come back to you ten-fold. Why muddy it up with things like lineage and symbology? In the end, the message is ultimately still the same, is it not?. I know...very simplistic...but it works for me. I'm definitely not esoteric when it comes to my spirituality.
Donald P. Hutchins
@Carin Laurie: Embodiment vs Essence, hhmmm lets what MW has to say:
Embodiment :NOUN
* tangible or visible form of an idea, quality, or feeling:
"she seemed to be a living embodiment of vitality"
synonyms: personification · incarnation · realization · manifestation ·
•the representation or expression of something in a tangible or visible form:
"it was in Germany alone that his hope seemed capable of embodiment"
Essence: NOUN
* intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character: "conflict is the essence of drama"
synonyms: quintessence · soul · spirit · nature · core · heart · crux ·
Well, I can see where you are coming from, and after some thought, I will say, that the Embodiment, whose essence I experienced, worked me, so that my embodiment and essence are maintained.
Carin Laurie
Felix, my response was only the answer to your question about knowing anyone who had experienced God 'without religion'... and I meant that assertion of mine to reflect my own standpoint. I am one of those folks who need to experience for myself rather than take on board what someone else tells me is true. Could be a flaw of mine but that's the way I am. (Still don't believe that men landed on the moon because I wasn't there to witness it!)
Donald P. I get where you are coming from too and, linguistically, we would seem to be using different words for the same thing. My understanding of the word 'embody' (and my dictionary's definition!) is rather more solid than yours... embody = to make corporeal.
And that is the reason I was going with the word 'essence' instead. Let us agree on the experience being most assuredly tangible.
It was asked, "Can we create an Unified Theory of Science & Religion and Man & Matter?"
Donald P. Hutchins replies:
What makes you think that 'Science' is not a 'Religion'? Religion requires repetitive acts of faith in order to support a belief, even if it is a fiction. Science requires repetitive acts of experiments in order to confirm fact from fiction. Both require repetitive acts in a reality that has Random Action Tensors Solutions, with Formulas Only Required, using Biological Reactionary Activists Ignorant of Natural Solutions, as agents of change.
Jim Lloyd
Donald, have you ever participated in a scientific endeavor? Experiments are not repetitive acts. As one learns each experiment is different from the last. There is no reason to prove a wheel is round over and over again. I have no idea what your jargon filled response actually means in English, so maybe Shaikh can interpret, since I can never figure out what he's saying either.
What are "Random Action Tensors Solutions". And :"formulas only required" has no meaning that I can discern. Any interpretation I could come up with is categorically wrong.
One thing science is not is ignorant of natural solutions. Science IS the study of nature. Religion is not the study of anything.
Donald P. Hutchins
What would you call and invisible force, able and willing, to alter momentarily, the 'laws of physical nature' , such as changing the density of an object, without changing its shape or temperature, so that 1 kilogram under acceleration of gravity, will fall as a feather, 100 kilograms as 100 feathers, and at the same time be an overwhelming source of peace and love, where one will feel the utter calm of that peace, to point that nothing else exists or matters?
Shaikh Raisuddin
Donald P. Hutchins, The invisible force is LANGUAGE! The consequence of language is "empathy". The Function of language is expression and comprehension of "occurrings" internal or and external.
Donald P. Hutchins
Man, or the common human, AFA Matter is the underlying concept, is nothing more than a mobile self-contained bag of protoplasm, and even simpler, just water, carbon, air and minerals. The fact that we can sit at a keyboard and make any sense at all is a wonder ...
Shaikh Raisuddin
Jim, The statement was meant to emphasize that we as humans are made up of matter and our being is not operated by alphabetical language. Another point that I emphasise is that meaning of words by which we have been psychologically conditioned with have ambiguities and are not precise in meaning eg malaria was meant as bad air. We do not know that the man coined a word was wise or not. Like robot we mean what has been forced upon us. Each word is an axiom. If axiom is wrong interpretation of statements would be wrong.
I was searching definition of language. I found each expert of language gave his own definition. There was no unanimity of meaning. Likewise if you test there will be no unanimity of meaning of words. Just give a sentence to your friends and ask its meaning. All will give different expression. It is this in exactness of language that is the curse of humanity.
Donald P. Hutchins
Yah, the Tower of Babel did it to us alright, made it so we were all confounded, and unable to understand each other. We all had one 'language' to speak until that event, or so to speak ...
My definition of a 'Spoken Language' is as follows : A set of common sounds, with common agreed to set of rules, for the variations of concatenations of said sounds, and the 'concepts implied' by the more common concatenations of said sounds used between those which use these sound sets to frequently communicate the implied concepts.
Shaikh Raisuddin
Hutchins, The function of language is 1) Expression and 2) Comprehension.
Neither we can rightly express what we feel inside nor we rightly mean what others are saying to us. If language had been perfect there would not have been subjectivity in interpretation of religion, science, law or any text or sermon. Language can be better defined as "expression of internal occurring and comprehension of external/internal occurring. The purpose or consequence is EMPATHY. Can alphabetical language claim to have it?
Donald P. Hutchins
Not so much as "defined by" but rather Used For the "expression of (one's) internal occurring's and (and to communicate one's) comprehension of one's external/internal occurring's".
Shaikh Raisuddin
The purpose of language is EMPATHY. I know and mean what you mean me to know you. Expression and comprehension are better word than communication which has connotation of being without meaning but akin to transmission/travel.
Donald P. Hutchins
"Expression and comprehension are better words ..."
Language is a tool of communication. Initially communication started out with drawings in the dirt, and the grunts made while in the process of drawing them. Each parent starts out with a need to teach the young how to stay alive and how to not get eaten by the wolves, and to pass on other salient useful knowledge. Empathy for one's children is paramount to most parents and is why they use language to communicate that knowledge of survival to their offspring. Empathy for one's village, and other people not in your immediate family, is a learned trait. It is passed on from old to young, to teach empathy.
Shaikh Raisuddin
Matter is object of causality. As long as identity of matter persists, causality is applicable. Beyond matter causality is inapplicable. Religion may deal beyond causality ...
Donald P. Hutchins
Religion deals with the dead, while trying to convince the living that the dead are in a better place, and that the church knows best ... so don't think about it, just believe whatever they tell you, it has to be true, they are leaders of faith, less fallible, and are closer to the 'source' than you are. They would never lie to you ... no ... only Satan, the father lies, does that.
Shaikh Raisuddin
Hutchins, Empathy exist between inanimate matter too if you look beyond definition by Webster. To be in empathy is to be in harmony with other. Now apply this to phenomenon of induction, equilibrium, entanglement etc. By religion I do not mean theological religions but set of beliefs.
Donald P. Hutchins
In Science, a set of 'beliefs' is really a set of 'Assumptions', which are a set of 'conditions' that help to define the 'first 'concept'. Assumptions are also a specific set of "What if ...s", that have no basis, or priori of expected results. As an example, I can make a presumption, based upon previous experience, such as dropping a coin, such that if I drop a coin, of similar description, to the previous coins that were also dropped, then I may presume, with a large degree of certainty, that the coin will do the same thing as the previous coins, and bounce when it hits the hard surface.
Without knowing that you, can, have, and will be able to add, 1 + 1, and arrive at the proper answer of 2 as I have in the past, I can reasonable assume that you have, can still, and will be able to add 1 + 1 and get the answer of 2.
You are speaking of the co-existence of stable matter, Spacetime, and presumed forces acting thereon and within. We are animate matter. As mobile bags of fluid-like matter, we are able to have empathy for other mobile bags of fluid-like matter. The environment that currently exists on the surface of this planet, is not inanimate. It is alive in more ways than one might imagine.
Harmony and empathy are two different concepts. Harmony, to me is a 'group orientated' concept, while empathy is more of an 'individual orientated'. One can be in harmony with something larger than ourselves, like nature, a group, or life itself, while one has empathy for that which smaller, and less durable than ourselves.
Shaikh Raisuddin
Hutchins, Anything which is working in sustained manner or has an oscillator is "alive".
Donald P. Hutchins
So, then, by your definition of "alive", an atom of Cs, the atom of choice in atomic clocks everywhere, as it has a constant and regular oscillation, vibration, which is used in the clocks that are in GPS satellites, must be alive, even though it is a single inorganic atom.
Shaikh Raisuddin: Yes. Anything that qualifies on stimulus/response is alive.
Donald P. Hutchins
Again, I see that you have used irregular vernacular and have implied it incorrectly. An atom of Cs, needs no stimulus, gives no response to anyone, in order to vibrate.
Shaikh Raisuddin: Hutchins, By saying so you defy atomic model. Ionization energy stimulate atoms.
Donald P. Hutchins
Cs does not need to be ionized to vibrate. All atoms, everywhere, if they are above 1 degree above Absolute Zero in temperature, vibrate in some manner. Cs just vibrates very regularly, under a range of operating temperatures, and not ionized. There is an amplifying circuit that uses a pure quartz crystal that uses the vibration from the Cs atom as input. Tick-Tock goes the Clock.
Shaikh Raisuddin
Man dies because oscillation of breathing stops yet oscillation of atoms of dead body continue. Having life by oscillator is one thing and manifesting life by stimulus/response to demonstrate symptoms of life. Threshold of Strength of Stimulus differ with being.
Donald P. Hutchins
@Shaikh Raisuddin: Given the following definitions:
' D ' = 'Divine', ' I ' = intervention, and ' E ' = Experience, i.e. to DIE is to have a divine intervention experience. To date I can, by virtue of still being able to walk and talk, and having had an overt DIE, on more than 9 occasions, and thus can say I have had real experience with DIE'ing, and can report on all of the events, in detail. I know that my body is just a support system, for my brain, which seems to be very important to, and is being kept intact and healthy by, an invisible force which is able to overtly change and control the nature of Nature, and is willing to go out of it's way to keep me safe, and out of trouble.
Shaikh Raisuddin: Hutchins, I do believe in divinity (proof of existence yet to be established) of language (of matter) which is God's science.
Donald P. Hutchins
While I have been unable to prove God's existence to anyone, an invisible force, presiding over nature, as God, went to some lengths, to prove to me, its existence. When God speaks, it is to create or destroy. God, in his infinite wisdom, created Matter with all of its given and measurable properties. Then went on from there, to eventually us humans. Man created 'language' or 'words' to communicate the concept of the existence of God. Man created 'science', to understand and duplicate the existing creations of God. My experience is real, so I can say that I know God exists. It isn't so easy for everyone else, so they believe, and put faith into that belief.
